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patch； and his black beard all glistening。
〃How do you do？ How do you do？〃 he said； laying an unnatural and
intentional stress on his words。 （Though； soon after the
marriage； they had tried to be more familiar with each other；
they had never succeeded。）
They shook hands； and Rogozhinsky sank softly into an easy…chair。
〃Am I not interrupting your conversation？〃
〃No； I do not wish to hide what I am saying or doing from any
one。〃
As soon as Nekhludoff saw the hairy hands； and heard the
patronising； self…assured tones； his meekness left him in a
moment。
〃Yes； we were talking about his intentions；〃 said Nathalie。
〃Shall I give you a cup of tea？〃 she added； taking the teapot。
〃Yes； please。 What particular intentions do you mean？〃
That of going to Siberia with the gang of prisoners； among whom
is the woman I consider myself to have wronged；〃 uttered
Nekhludoff。
〃I hear not only to accompany her； but more than that。〃
〃Yes； and to marry her if she wishes it。〃
〃Dear me！ But if you do not object I should like to ask you to
explain your motives。 I do not understand them。〃
〃My motives are that this womanthat this woman's first step on
her way to degradation〃 Nekhludoff got angry with himself； and
was unable to find the right expression。 〃My motives are that I
am the guilty one； and she gets the punishment。〃
〃If she is being punished she cannot be innocent； either。〃
〃She is quite innocent。〃 And Nekhludoff related the whole
incident with unnecessary warmth。
〃Yes； that was a case of carelessness on the part of the
president； the result of which was a thoughtless answer on the
part of the jury； but there is the Senate for cases like that。〃
〃The Senate has rejected the appeal。〃
〃Well； if the Senate has rejected it； there cannot have been
sufficient reasons for an appeal；〃 said Rogozhinsky； evidently
sharing the prevailing opinion that truth is the product of
judicial decrees。 〃The Senate cannot enter into the question on
its merits。 If there is a real mistake； the Emperor should be
petitioned。〃
〃That has been done； but there is no probability of success。 They
will apply to the Department of the Ministry； the Department will
consult the Senate； the Senate will repeat its decision； and； as
usual； the innocent will get punished。〃
〃In the first place； the Department of the Ministry won't consult
the Senate；〃 said Rogozhinsky； with a condescending smile； 〃it
will give orders for the original deeds to be sent from the Law
Court； and if it discovers a mistake it will decide accordingly。
And； secondly； the innocent are never punished； or at least in
very rare； exceptional cases。 It is the guilty who are punished；〃
Rogozhinsky said deliberately； and smiled self…complacently。
〃And I have become fully convinced that most of those condemned
by law are innocent。〃
〃How's that？
〃Innocent in the literal sense。 Just as this woman is innocent of
poisoning any one； as innocent as a peasant I have just come to
know； of the murder he never committed； as a mother and son who
were on the point of being condemned for incendiarism； which was
committed by the owner of the house that was set on fire。〃
〃Well； of course there always have been and always will be
judicial errors。 Human institutions cannot be perfect。〃
〃And； besides； there are a great many people convicted who are
innocent of doing anything considered wrong by the society they
have grown up in。〃
〃Excuse me； this is not so； every thief knows that stealing is
wrong； and that we should not steal； that it is immoral；〃 said
Rogozhinsky； with his quiet； self…assured； slightly contemptuous
smile； which specially irritated Nekhludoff。
〃No； he does not know it； they say to him 'don't steal；' and he
knows that the master of the factory steals his labour by keeping
back his wages； that the Government； with its officials； robs him
continually by taxation。〃
〃Why； this is anarchism；〃 Rogozhinsky said； quietly defining his
brother…in…law's words。
〃I don't know what it is； I am only telling you the truth；〃
Nekhludoff continued。 〃He knows that the Government is robbing
him； knows that we landed proprietors have robbed him long since；
robbed him of the land which should be the common property of
all； and then； if he picks up dry wood to light his fire on that
land stolen from him； we put him in jail； and try to persuade him
that he is a thief。 Of course he knows that not he but those who
robbed him of the land are thieves； and that to get any
restitution of what has been robbed is his duty towards his
family。〃
〃I don't understand； or if I do I cannot agree with it。 The land
must be somebody's property；〃 began Rogozhinsky quietly； and；
convinced that Nekhludoff was a Socialist； and that Socialism
demands that all the land should be divided equally； that such a
division would be very foolish； and that he could easily prove it
to be so； he said。 〃If you divided it equally to…day； it would
to…morrow be again in the hands of the most industrious and
clever。〃
〃Nobody is thinking of dividing the land equally。 The land must
not be anybody's property； must not be a thing to be bought and
sold or rented。〃
〃The rights of property are inborn in man； without them the
cultivation of land would present no interest。 Destroy the rights
of property and we lapse into barbarism。〃 Rogozhinsky uttered
this authoritatively； repeating the usual argument in favour of
private ownership of land which is supposed to be irrefutable；
based on the assumption that people's desire to possess land
proves that they need it。
〃On the contrary； only when the land is nobody's property will it
cease to lie idle； as it does now； while the landlords； like dogs
in the manger； unable themselves to put it to use； will not let
those use it who are able。〃
〃But； Dmitri Ivanovitch； what you are saying is sheer madness。 Is
it possible to abolish property in land in our age？ I know it is
your old hobby。 But allow me to tell you straight；〃 and
Rogozhinsky grew pale； and his voice trembled。 It was evident
that this question touched him very nearly。 〃I should advise you
to consider this question well before attempting to solve it
practically。〃
〃Are you speaking of my personal affairs？〃
〃Yes； I hold that we who are placed in special circumstances
should bear the responsibilities which spring from those
circumstances； should uphold the conditions in which we were
born； and which we have inherited from our predecessors； and
which we ought to pass on to our descendants。〃
〃I consider it my duty〃
〃Wait a bit；〃 said Rogozhinsky； not permitting the interruption。
〃I am not speaking for myself or my children。 The position of my
children is assured； and I earn enough for us to live
comfortably； and I expect my children will live so too； so that
my interest in your actionwhich； if you will allow me to say
so； is not well consideredis not based on personal motives； it
is on principle that I cannot agree with you。 I should advise you
to think it well over； to read…？〃
〃Please allow me to settle my affairs； and to choose what to read
and what not to read； myself；〃 said Nekhludoff； turning pale。
Feeling his hands grow cold； and that he was no longer master of
himself； he stopped； and began drinking his tea。
CHAPTER XXXIII。
THE AIM OF THE LAW。
〃Well； and how are the children？〃 Nekhludoff asked his sister
when he was calmer。 The sister told him about the children。 She
said they were staying with their grandmother （their father's
mother）； and； pleased that his dispute with her husband had come
to an end； she began telling him how her children played that
they were travelling； just as he used to do with his three dolls；
one of them a negro and another which he called the French lady。
〃Can you really remember it all？〃 said Nekhludoff； smiling。
〃Yes； and just fancy； they play in the very same way。〃
The unpleasant conversation had been brought to an end； and
Nathalie was quieter； but she did not care to talk in her
husband's presence of what could be comprehensible only to her
brother； so； wishing to start a general conversation； she began
talking about the sorrow of Kamenski's mother at losing her only
son； who had fallen in a duel； for this Petersburg topic of the
day had now reached Moscow。 Rogozhinsky expressed disapproval at
the state of things that excluded murder in a duel from the
ordinary criminal offences。 This remark evoked a rejoinder from
Nekhludoff； and a new dispute arose on the subject。 Nothing was
fully explained； neither of the antagonists expressed all he had
in his mind； each keeping to his conviction； which condemned the
other。 Rogozhinsky felt that Nekhludoff condemned him and
despised his activity； and he wished to show him the injustice of
his opinions。
Nekhludoff； on the other hand； felt provoked by his
brother…in…law's interference in his affairs concerning the land。
And knowing in his heart of hearts that his sister； her husband；
and their children； as his heirs； had a right to do so； was
indignant that this narrow…minded man persisted with calm
assurance to regard as just and lawful what Nekhludoff no longer
doubted was folly and crime。