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instruments in general？
HERMOGENES： To be sure。
SOCRATES： And now suppose that I ask a similar question about names： will
you answer me？ Regarding the name as an instrument； what do we do when we
name？
HERMOGENES： I cannot say。
SOCRATES： Do we not give information to one another； and distinguish
things according to their natures？
HERMOGENES： Certainly we do。
SOCRATES： Then a name is an instrument of teaching and of distinguishing
natures； as the shuttle is of distinguishing the threads of the web。
HERMOGENES： Yes。
SOCRATES： And the shuttle is the instrument of the weaver？
HERMOGENES： Assuredly。
SOCRATES： Then the weaver will use the shuttle welland well means like a
weaver？ and the teacher will use the name welland well means like a
teacher？
HERMOGENES： Yes。
SOCRATES： And when the weaver uses the shuttle； whose work will he be
using well？
HERMOGENES： That of the carpenter。
SOCRATES： And is every man a carpenter； or the skilled only？
HERMOGENES： Only the skilled。
SOCRATES： And when the piercer uses the awl； whose work will he be using
well？
HERMOGENES： That of the smith。
SOCRATES： And is every man a smith； or only the skilled？
HERMOGENES： The skilled only。
SOCRATES： And when the teacher uses the name； whose work will he be using？
HERMOGENES： There again I am puzzled。
SOCRATES： Cannot you at least say who gives us the names which we use？
HERMOGENES： Indeed I cannot。
SOCRATES： Does not the law seem to you to give us them？
HERMOGENES： Yes； I suppose so。
SOCRATES： Then the teacher； when he gives us a name； uses the work of the
legislator？
HERMOGENES： I agree。
SOCRATES： And is every man a legislator； or the skilled only？
HERMOGENES： The skilled only。
SOCRATES： Then； Hermogenes； not every man is able to give a name； but only
a maker of names； and this is the legislator； who of all skilled artisans
in the world is the rarest。
HERMOGENES： True。
SOCRATES： And how does the legislator make names？ and to what does he
look？ Consider this in the light of the previous instances： to what does
the carpenter look in making the shuttle？ Does he not look to that which
is naturally fitted to act as a shuttle？
HERMOGENES： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And suppose the shuttle to be broken in making； will he make
another； looking to the broken one？ or will he look to the form according
to which he made the other？
HERMOGENES： To the latter； I should imagine。
SOCRATES： Might not that be justly called the true or ideal shuttle？
HERMOGENES： I think so。
SOCRATES： And whatever shuttles are wanted； for the manufacture of
garments； thin or thick； of flaxen； woollen； or other material； ought all
of them to have the true form of the shuttle； and whatever is the shuttle
best adapted to each kind of work； that ought to be the form which the
maker produces in each case。
HERMOGENES： Yes。
SOCRATES： And the same holds of other instruments： when a man has
discovered the instrument which is naturally adapted to each work； he must
express this natural form； and not others which he fancies； in the
material； whatever it may be； which he employs； for example； he ought to
know how to put into iron the forms of awls adapted by nature to their
several uses？
HERMOGENES： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And how to put into wood forms of shuttles adapted by nature to
their uses？
HERMOGENES： True。
SOCRATES： For the several forms of shuttles naturally answer to the
several kinds of webs； and this is true of instruments in general。
HERMOGENES： Yes。
SOCRATES： Then； as to names： ought not our legislator also to know how to
put the true natural name of each thing into sounds and syllables； and to
make and give all names with a view to the ideal name； if he is to be a
namer in any true sense？ And we must remember that different legislators
will not use the same syllables。 For neither does every smith； although he
may be making the same instrument for the same purpose； make them all of
the same iron。 The form must be the same； but the material may vary； and
still the instrument may be equally good of whatever iron made； whether in
Hellas or in a foreign country；there is no difference。
HERMOGENES： Very true。
SOCRATES： And the legislator； whether he be Hellene or barbarian； is not
therefore to be deemed by you a worse legislator； provided he gives the
true and proper form of the name in whatever syllables； this or that
country makes no matter。
HERMOGENES： Quite true。
SOCRATES： But who then is to determine whether the proper form is given to
the shuttle； whatever sort of wood may be used？ the carpenter who makes； or
the weaver who is to use them？
HERMOGENES： I should say； he who is to use them； Socrates。
SOCRATES： And who uses the work of the lyre…maker？ Will not he be the man
who knows how to direct what is being done； and who will know also whether
the work is being well done or not？
HERMOGENES： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And who is he？
HERMOGENES： The player of the lyre。
SOCRATES： And who will direct the shipwright？
HERMOGENES： The pilot。
SOCRATES： And who will be best able to direct the legislator in his work；
and will know whether the work is well done； in this or any other country？
Will not the user be the man？
HERMOGENES： Yes。
SOCRATES： And this is he who knows how to ask questions？
HERMOGENES： Yes。
SOCRATES： And how to answer them？
HERMOGENES： Yes。
SOCRATES： And him who knows how to ask and answer you would call a
dialectician？
HERMOGENES： Yes； that would be his name。
SOCRATES： Then the work of the carpenter is to make a rudder； and the
pilot has to direct him； if the rudder is to be well made。
HERMOGENES： True。
SOCRATES： And the work of the legislator is to give names； and the
dialectician must be his director if the names are to be rightly given？
HERMOGENES： That is true。
SOCRATES： Then； Hermogenes； I should say that this giving of names can be
no such light matter as you fancy； or the work of light or chance persons；
and Cratylus is right in saying that things have names by nature； and that
not every man is an artificer of names； but he only who looks to the name
which each thing by nature has； and is able to express the true forms of
things in letters and syllables。
HERMOGENES： I cannot answer you； Socrates； but I find a difficulty in
changing my opinion all in a moment； and I think that I should be more
readily persuaded； if you would show me what this is which you term the
natural fitness of names。
SOCRATES： My good Hermogenes； I have none to show。 Was I not telling you
just now （but you have forgotten）； that I knew nothing； and proposing to
share the enquiry with you？ But now that you and I have talked over the
matter； a step has been gained； for we have discovered that names have by
nature a truth； and that not every man knows how to give a thing a name。
HERMOGENES： Very good。
SOCRATES： And what is the nature of this truth or correctness of names？
That； if you care to know； is the next question。
HERMOGENES： Certainly； I care to know。
SOCRATES： Then reflect。
HERMOGENES： How shall I reflect？
SOCRATES： The true way is to have the assistance of those who know； and
you must pay them well both in money and in thanks； these are the Sophists；
of whom your brother； Callias； hasrather dearlybought the reputation of
wisdom。 But you have not yet come into your inheritance； and therefore you
had better go to him； and beg and entreat him to tell you what he has
learnt from Protagoras about the fitness of names。
HERMOGENES： But how inconsistent should I be； if； whilst repudiating
Protagoras and his truth （'Truth' was the title of the book of Protagoras；
compare Theaet。）； I were to attach any value to what he and his book
affirm！
SOCRATES： Then if you despise him； you must learn of Homer and the poets。
HERMOGENES： And where does Homer say anything about names； and what does
he say？
SOCRATES： He often speaks of them； notably and nobly in the places where
he distinguishes the different names which Gods and men give to the same
things。 Does he not in these passages make a remarkable statement about
the correctness of names？ For the Gods must clearly be supposed to call
things by their right and natural names； do you not think so？
HERMOGENES： Why； of course they call them rightly； if they call them at
all。 But to what are you referring？
SOCRATES： Do you not know what he says about the river in Troy who had a
single combat with Hephaestus？
'Whom；' as he says； 'the Gods call Xanthus； and men call Scamander。'
HERMOGENE